April 30, 2026
And Then Life Pulled Me Back In
The player is loading ...
On this episode of Building a Better Dave, I open up about a lifelong battle with debt, from childhood lessons learned at the family kitchen table to the hard realities of bankruptcy, divorce, and the ever-looming burden of credit cards. I share how persistent financial setbacks reshaped his perspective on money, hard work, and resilience. Just when he thought he had finally conquered debt, an unexpected basement flood pulled him back in, reminding him that life's challenges are never really finished. Join me as I explore what it means to keep pushing forward when setbacks strike, the value of perseverance, and how sometimes tearing things down is the first step to building something even better.
Like the show? Wan to give some value back? Buy Dave a Coffee (or 10).
Sequence of Topics Covered
1. Introduction & Theme of Debt
-
Dave Jackson introduces debt as the main topic and his lifelong struggle with it 00:00.
-
Show info and contact details are provided 00:08.
2. Early Lessons in Money and Debt
-
Memories of his dad doing taxes and the tension around finances 00:36.
-
The influence of the Lannister motto, "A Lannister always pays his debts," on his upbringing 01:22.
-
Story of borrowing $300 from his grandfather to buy a car and the process of paying him back 01:28.
-
Learning there are no "free lunches" and needing to earn money for things he wanted, such as music albums 01:47.
3. Family Finances & Value of Money
-
Family's economic background (not rich, not poor, but frugal) 02:24.
-
Use of coupons, hand-me-downs, and lessons in financial responsibility from his mother 02:33.
4. Adult Experiences with Debt
-
First marriage: fertility challenges lead to substantial credit card debt for treatments 02:41.
-
Living paycheck to paycheck and discussing bankruptcy, which conflicted with his "pay your debts" values 03:30.
-
After 9/11, wife's hours were cut, leading them to file for bankruptcy reluctantly 03:40.
5. Struggles with Debt in Later Life
-
Marriage to a partner with poor credit and inheriting someone else's credit card debt after divorce 04:17.
-
Failed attempts at debt consolidation and the difficulty of accessing better loan rates 05:09.
-
Gradual process of securing slightly better loans and working towards being debt-free 05:25.
6. The Turning Point: Selling the School of Podcasting
-
Conversation with his boss about potential for the School of Podcasting 05:42.
-
Decision to sell the business for enough money to pay off debt, while maintaining a professional relationship 06:23.
-
Finishing 2025 debt-free and entering the new year with a clean slate 07:07.
-
Enjoying financial freedom and considering future opportunities and contributions to family 07:38.
7. Setbacks: Home Flooding and New Debt
-
Feeling of finally catching up to peers in life after years of feeling behind 08:03.
-
Discovery of water damage and mold in the basement after heavy rain 09:18.
-
Realization of the high cost involved in repairs and choosing to finance the repairs rather than deplete savings 10:30.
-
Resuming strategies from earlier years to manage debt and expenses 11:05.
8. Mindset and Coping Strategies
-
Acceptance of debt as a temporary setback and readiness to cut corners and reduce expenses (e.g., fewer streaming services, no fast food) 11:48.
-
Reflecting on the possibility of being in debt into old age and the impact on personal plans 12:22.
9. Tackling Change and Optimism
-
Clearing out the workshop and preparing for basement renovations 12:51.
-
Parallel between demolishing basement parts and the demolition of his childhood schools 13:31.
-
Considering new configurations for the basement, such as moving down his podcasting studio, and seeking hidden benefits 14:05.
-
Drawing inspiration from his grandmother's longevity supported by daily movement 14:18.
10. It is What It is
-
Paying for repairs and looking forward with optimism, knowing things will improve 14:46.
-
Mention of listener support through "buy me a coffee" on the website to help with expenses 14:58.
-
Closing wishes for the audience and a tease for the next episode 15:19.
This show is LISTENER Supported.
If this show made you laugh, cry, think, groan, or educated, or entertained. Consider giving some of that value back.
1
00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,000
Today I thought I would talk a little bit about
2
00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,080
debt because all my life I've been trying to get out of it.
3
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,000
And well, live from the basement,
4
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,640
it's building a better Dave. Check us
5
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,269
out@betterdave.com email
6
00:00:19,651 --> 00:00:23,280
us@dave betterdave.com
7
00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:25,840
or call in your comments
8
00:00:26,530 --> 00:00:30,290
888-563-3228.
9
00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:35,490
Now here's your host, Dave Jackson.
10
00:00:36,370 --> 00:00:39,810
When I was growing up, I remember
11
00:00:40,690 --> 00:00:43,650
my dad doing his taxes probably on a Saturday
12
00:00:44,530 --> 00:00:47,810
and probably Sunday, and my mom
13
00:00:49,010 --> 00:00:52,850
pulling me aside being, you know, the annoying 78 year old
14
00:00:52,850 --> 00:00:56,670
boy that's just spastic and stupid and just kind of
15
00:00:56,670 --> 00:01:00,470
saying, please don't poke the bear, just please leave your dad alone. And he'd be,
16
00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:04,350
he had all these papers all over the kitchen table and shoeboxes
17
00:01:04,350 --> 00:01:08,150
of receipts and all sorts of stuff. And
18
00:01:08,790 --> 00:01:12,550
if you've ever watched hbo, there's a
19
00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:16,230
show called Game of Thrones. And it's all these different families and
20
00:01:16,390 --> 00:01:19,710
they're all fighting for the kingdom, you know. But one of them is the
21
00:01:19,710 --> 00:01:23,510
Lannisters. The Lannisters. And one of their sayings is a
22
00:01:23,510 --> 00:01:27,310
Lannister always pays his debts. And that was kind of
23
00:01:27,310 --> 00:01:31,150
my dad. He was always, you know, I remember my
24
00:01:31,150 --> 00:01:34,150
Grandpa lent me $300
25
00:01:34,790 --> 00:01:38,630
to buy my first car. And I had a paper route at the time
26
00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:43,030
and we did paperwork and I will do this many payments and
27
00:01:43,190 --> 00:01:46,830
yada yada yada, and you will pay back your
28
00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:50,150
debts. There are no free lunches. In fact, even growing up,
29
00:01:51,090 --> 00:01:54,850
I remember I wanted the song Pinball wizard by
30
00:01:54,850 --> 00:01:58,570
Elton John. And the only way you could get that,
31
00:01:58,570 --> 00:02:02,330
this is way before Spotify kids, was to buy the
32
00:02:02,330 --> 00:02:05,610
double album. No, there was no 45 single or
33
00:02:05,610 --> 00:02:09,130
cassette. You had to buy the double album of the
34
00:02:09,130 --> 00:02:11,970
movie soundtrack from the who. And it was a lot of money.
35
00:02:12,690 --> 00:02:15,970
And so I had to wash a lot of cars and
36
00:02:16,450 --> 00:02:20,210
sweep a lot of floors. And I did not. It was never.
37
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,400
Was it like, how much is it? Oh, 18 bucks. Here you go. That
38
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,120
just didn't happen in the Jackson household. We
39
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,840
weren't rich. We weren't like, we never went
40
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,520
without food. But I had a lot of hand me downs
41
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,360
growing up from my brother. And my mom was the queen
42
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,440
of coupons. And so I understood the
43
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,290
value of money, which is why
44
00:02:48,090 --> 00:02:51,850
when I got married, I knew my wife had
45
00:02:52,490 --> 00:02:56,290
one ovary. So I knew having a kid was a
46
00:02:56,290 --> 00:02:59,770
long shot. But we figured, ah, you only need one ovary.
47
00:03:00,250 --> 00:03:04,090
And who doesn't love trying to have a kid? Well, it turns out that's A
48
00:03:04,090 --> 00:03:07,650
big pain in the butt after a while, especially if your wife also
49
00:03:07,650 --> 00:03:11,130
has endometriosis, which is basically speed bumps for kids
50
00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:13,620
or for sperm. And
51
00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:19,500
we ended up charging up, I think four, at
52
00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:23,260
least three credit cards with fertility treatment. And
53
00:03:23,260 --> 00:03:26,700
I remember her saying, well, because we were
54
00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,300
literally living paycheck to paycheck.
55
00:03:30,420 --> 00:03:33,300
And I remember saying we should file for
56
00:03:33,460 --> 00:03:36,980
bankruptcy. And I was kind of like, how dare you?
57
00:03:37,750 --> 00:03:41,550
Atlantis pays his debts. And the only
58
00:03:41,550 --> 00:03:45,350
reason I ended up filing for divorce, well, that happened
59
00:03:45,350 --> 00:03:49,030
later too, but for bankruptcy was 911
60
00:03:49,030 --> 00:03:52,550
hit and her hours got cut by about 20%.
61
00:03:52,630 --> 00:03:55,590
And that's all it took when you're living paycheck to paycheck.
62
00:03:56,150 --> 00:03:59,270
Yeah, I could only juggle so much.
63
00:03:59,990 --> 00:04:03,830
And so I've always hated debt. I was deeply ashamed
64
00:04:04,050 --> 00:04:06,920
of that. I had to file for bankruptcy.
65
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,360
And so if we fast forward, you
66
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,040
know, I'm out of debt, doing great, always. You know, my,
67
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,840
my credit is amazing. And then I find
68
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,520
someone who has horrible credit and I
69
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,320
marry them. And that was also the case with now ex
70
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,760
wife number two. And
71
00:04:30,130 --> 00:04:33,250
we went through many years of marriage counseling.
72
00:04:33,810 --> 00:04:37,570
Luckily we weren't charging it, but we might as well have, because when we
73
00:04:37,570 --> 00:04:41,290
finally decided to get divorced, one of the stipulations
74
00:04:41,290 --> 00:04:44,690
was I had to take her credit card debt,
75
00:04:45,010 --> 00:04:48,730
even though it wasn't stuff that I bought. It was like, hey, if you
76
00:04:48,730 --> 00:04:51,490
want out of this, you got to take this.
77
00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:56,490
And that's how bad I wanted out of that marriage, because I did not want
78
00:04:56,490 --> 00:04:59,950
to go back in debt. But I took five figures
79
00:05:00,830 --> 00:05:03,790
of credit card debt, and it took me
80
00:05:04,590 --> 00:05:08,030
many years because I tried to get a consolidation loan
81
00:05:08,350 --> 00:05:11,950
to get a better rate. And they're like, no, no, your
82
00:05:12,190 --> 00:05:15,870
income to debt ratio is too high. We can't give you a loan.
83
00:05:15,870 --> 00:05:19,710
And I'm like, of course, it makes no sense to give someone a loan
84
00:05:19,710 --> 00:05:22,590
when they actually need one. But I finally got a,
85
00:05:23,620 --> 00:05:26,980
an okay loan that was pretty awful. And then I got another one that was
86
00:05:26,980 --> 00:05:29,860
a little better and a little better. And I finally was about
87
00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:34,460
three years out from getting
88
00:05:34,460 --> 00:05:37,380
debt free. And my boss
89
00:05:38,260 --> 00:05:42,060
and I had a meeting about the school of podcasting.
90
00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:45,420
And he said, hey, like, why isn't the school of podcasting
91
00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:49,140
bigger? He's like, everybody loves you. You're a great teacher,
92
00:05:49,140 --> 00:05:52,780
you're well respected. Why isn't like
93
00:05:52,860 --> 00:05:56,460
this place the place to learn how to podcast? And I said,
94
00:05:56,460 --> 00:05:59,980
because it's a part time job and it pays part time
95
00:05:59,980 --> 00:06:03,500
money. I go, but I'm having a blast. And he was like,
96
00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:07,060
okay. And the next day he came back and he said, do you think it
97
00:06:07,060 --> 00:06:10,780
would be bigger if you had more time? And I go, yeah,
98
00:06:11,260 --> 00:06:15,060
absolutely. And he said, well, what if I bought
99
00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:17,820
it, meaning the school of podcasting,
100
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,400
and then you could do that as part of your day job. And I was
101
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,840
like, that's interesting. How much money are we talking? And he
102
00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:29,000
offered enough money for me to go, ooh,
103
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,560
that would get me out of debt. And again,
104
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,320
that's really, really important to me. And so
105
00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,760
I thought about it. I really like my boss. In fact, we have
106
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,920
half the conversations were about how do we not mess up
107
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,180
our relationship? Because he really likes that. I work for
108
00:06:48,180 --> 00:06:51,900
PodPage. I really like working for PodPage. We
109
00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:55,660
have a thing in our agreement that after a year, if we want to unravel
110
00:06:55,660 --> 00:06:59,340
it, we can. But I ended up selling
111
00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:02,780
the school of podcasting. And I was out of debt
112
00:07:03,660 --> 00:07:06,540
back in December of 2025.
113
00:07:07,420 --> 00:07:11,220
So I went into 2026 with no debt. And
114
00:07:11,220 --> 00:07:14,230
I was loving it because again,
115
00:07:14,870 --> 00:07:18,230
when I'm in debt, I really don't like it.
116
00:07:18,470 --> 00:07:21,670
I don't like it at all. And so I was spending
117
00:07:21,750 --> 00:07:25,270
thousands of dollars to get the debt away.
118
00:07:26,710 --> 00:07:29,830
And so now that thousands of dollars a month
119
00:07:30,710 --> 00:07:34,270
was going into my bank account, which was cool.
120
00:07:34,270 --> 00:07:37,670
I have more money in the bank than I've had ever.
121
00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:41,800
And I was like, well, great. And I was starting to think about the things
122
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,560
I could do. I might build a garage on the house. I could.
123
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,920
I got great nieces and nephews that are eventually going to be
124
00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,640
headed to college. Maybe I could help with that. All the different things
125
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,280
I could do. And it was, it made me feel
126
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,880
normal because again,
127
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,680
I had this weird. I always felt like I
128
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,940
was four years behind everybody else in life because
129
00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:12,100
when I graduated from high school, they went to college. I did not.
130
00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:16,460
I thought I had a great job. It was a union job, working
131
00:08:16,460 --> 00:08:19,620
in a grocery store. And when you're making almost 10 bucks an hour in
132
00:08:19,620 --> 00:08:22,260
1984, you know, 83,
133
00:08:23,380 --> 00:08:26,980
that was not bad money. I was living with my brother, life was
134
00:08:26,980 --> 00:08:30,420
great. And then the store got sold and
135
00:08:30,660 --> 00:08:34,389
I lost my job. And that's when I went back to school the
136
00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:38,229
first time. But everybody else had a four year start. So I've
137
00:08:38,229 --> 00:08:41,909
always felt like I was behind. And now I
138
00:08:41,909 --> 00:08:45,709
felt like, all right, I finally caught up to everybody else that was
139
00:08:45,709 --> 00:08:49,389
my age and I was kind of, oh, I was proud of myself
140
00:08:49,389 --> 00:08:51,869
just because I dug myself out. And it was great
141
00:08:52,909 --> 00:08:56,589
until May. What is this? April of this
142
00:08:56,589 --> 00:09:00,269
year? We got, you know, April Showers bring May flowers
143
00:09:01,010 --> 00:09:03,970
and we got a lot of April showers. And
144
00:09:04,690 --> 00:09:08,050
I go down to the basement, which is an absolute just.
145
00:09:08,690 --> 00:09:12,530
It's just a big giant storage shed with crap everywhere. I grew
146
00:09:12,530 --> 00:09:16,370
up in the basement, but I only go there now to
147
00:09:16,610 --> 00:09:20,370
do laundry. And so I go down to do laundry and it's
148
00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:24,090
raining cats and dogs outside. And all of a sudden I notice that there
149
00:09:24,090 --> 00:09:27,750
is some invisible person peeing in my basement.
150
00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:31,550
I can hear it and I'm like, wait, where's that sound coming
151
00:09:31,550 --> 00:09:35,030
from? And so I kind of walk over and like,
152
00:09:35,110 --> 00:09:38,870
sounds like it's coming from behind those boxes. So I move all these
153
00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:42,709
boxes out of the way and a. The first thing I see is mold
154
00:09:43,270 --> 00:09:46,950
on the wall. Now, I worked for a company that used
155
00:09:46,950 --> 00:09:50,270
to maintain houses that had been
156
00:09:50,270 --> 00:09:54,020
foreclosed on. And I know what happens if you get water in the
157
00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:57,820
house. It's one of the worst things that can happen. And so I see mold,
158
00:09:58,220 --> 00:10:02,060
and out of the wall is, I don't
159
00:10:02,060 --> 00:10:05,420
know, a little quarter inch stream of water
160
00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:09,100
shooting about an inch and a half out of the wall and it's
161
00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:12,940
hitting the floor, hence making the peeing sound. And I was like,
162
00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:17,340
well, that looks expensive. And it's one of those things that,
163
00:10:18,310 --> 00:10:22,110
yeah, I could stick some goo in it and hope that the, the drain just
164
00:10:22,110 --> 00:10:25,030
mysteriously doesn't show up in another part of the house.
165
00:10:25,830 --> 00:10:29,590
But like I say, I know what happens when you get water in your
166
00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:33,390
house. And so I did a bunch
167
00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:36,950
of quotations from people and had people come in and look
168
00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:41,710
and it's like, well, I had money in the bank and
169
00:10:41,710 --> 00:10:45,120
if I wanted to, I could almost pay for it
170
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,440
in cash. But as much as I hate
171
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,680
being in debt, I want to have that Dave
172
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:56,520
Ramsey nest ready in case things. I'm
173
00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,000
always thinking something's going to go horrible. And
174
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,520
so I financed, I will be financing and I'll be
175
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,760
back in debt. And I was like, ugh. But
176
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,440
some things you got to do even if you don't want to do them. I
177
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,710
would much rather finance a garage or
178
00:11:14,710 --> 00:11:17,990
finance rebuilding the basement and making it
179
00:11:18,390 --> 00:11:22,150
bring back the pool table and the ping pong table and a kick butt stereo.
180
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:25,590
Maybe move my podcasting studio down there.
181
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:29,750
Everything except, I don't know, have them dig to China
182
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:34,470
to fix my draining problems.
183
00:11:35,830 --> 00:11:39,590
So I spent my whole life crawling my way out
184
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:42,930
of debt. It seems like at least in my 20s since then.
185
00:11:43,890 --> 00:11:47,250
And I got out and life pulled me back in.
186
00:11:48,210 --> 00:11:51,810
Then I guess the advantage I have
187
00:11:52,770 --> 00:11:56,610
is I did make it. I. I saw what it's like to live
188
00:11:56,610 --> 00:12:00,330
debt free. And I know how to cut corners. I'll go back to only
189
00:12:00,330 --> 00:12:04,090
having one streaming service. I'll go back to no fast
190
00:12:04,090 --> 00:12:07,940
food. I'll go back to all the things that
191
00:12:07,940 --> 00:12:11,260
I've done my whole life to save money
192
00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:14,460
and to get out of debt. I just thought I was done
193
00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:19,180
exercising that skill. And life has said,
194
00:12:19,180 --> 00:12:22,739
no, not yet. And then I go, well, wait a minute. If it
195
00:12:22,739 --> 00:12:26,380
takes me 5, 10 years to pay this
196
00:12:26,380 --> 00:12:30,140
off, like, I'm going to be pushing 70 at that point.
197
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:34,700
It's a little late to put up the ping pong table. Maybe at that point.
198
00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:38,530
I don't know. We'll see. But I hate being in debt.
199
00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:43,010
And it is what it is. And you got to do what you got to
200
00:12:43,010 --> 00:12:46,450
do. The only thing you have control
201
00:12:46,690 --> 00:12:50,450
over is how you react to it.
202
00:12:51,250 --> 00:12:54,690
And so I have to go around and
203
00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:59,090
get everything off the walls. And I'm in
204
00:12:59,170 --> 00:13:02,620
what we used to just call the workshop. And it has this
205
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:06,140
huge all along the wall, this
206
00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:10,140
super bench that my dad had made. And I see where it's not
207
00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:12,700
connected to the wall, but it's really heavy.
208
00:13:13,820 --> 00:13:16,940
And we were talking about we might just cut it up
209
00:13:18,060 --> 00:13:21,900
because a, I've never used it. It's not like I'm building anything
210
00:13:22,940 --> 00:13:25,660
and bring it out. And I was like, you know, and then
211
00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:29,220
there are parts of it. We're just going to have to demolish part of the
212
00:13:29,220 --> 00:13:32,820
basement to fix it. And I was like,
213
00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:35,620
well, they demolished my
214
00:13:36,020 --> 00:13:39,700
elementary school. They demolished my junior
215
00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:43,300
high school and my high school. Why not?
216
00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:47,100
You know, I've joked how, you know, all the wooden paneling
217
00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:50,300
is gone from the room that used to have the pool table because of a
218
00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:52,980
flood. That was one flood back before I was here.
219
00:13:54,180 --> 00:13:58,000
And I was like, well, sometimes you got
220
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,560
to tear things down. And, yep, they're not going to be like they
221
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,160
were, but they might actually be better.
222
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,760
And I was thinking of all the different ways I could configure the basement and
223
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,600
maybe put my podcasting stuff down there. It's cool,
224
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,720
it's quiet, and
225
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,480
it'll give me a reason to go up and down the steps. And that worked
226
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,320
for my grandma. She lived to be well into her 90s, and
227
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,060
she slept upstairs. So every day, you
228
00:14:27,060 --> 00:14:30,780
know, she would go up and down the stairs, and I'm like, well,
229
00:14:30,780 --> 00:14:34,020
that's maybe what I need to do. What are the benefits
230
00:14:34,980 --> 00:14:37,380
of this particular situation?
231
00:14:38,660 --> 00:14:42,020
And I guess we're gonna find out, because there's no way around it.
232
00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:45,540
And I wrote the check to get things started.
233
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:50,100
And now it's just a matter of, like, well, as I always say,
234
00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:54,540
it's gonna get better. There's a link
235
00:14:54,940 --> 00:14:57,340
in the description of this show.
236
00:14:58,540 --> 00:15:02,260
If you find it entertaining, if you find it thought
237
00:15:02,260 --> 00:15:06,020
provoking, if you get some sort of value out of this and you want
238
00:15:06,020 --> 00:15:09,420
to give some value back, you can go to betterdave.com
239
00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:13,380
and there's a button there that says, buy me a coffee. And if you buy
240
00:15:13,380 --> 00:15:14,220
me a couple thousand,
241
00:15:16,990 --> 00:15:20,270
it'll help me pay off the basement. Yay. There you go. That's all.
242
00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:24,550
So I hope life on your side of the computer
243
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:28,230
glass is amazing, and I'll see you again soon with another
244
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:30,510
episode of Building a Better Day.
00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,000
Today I thought I would talk a little bit about
2
00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,080
debt because all my life I've been trying to get out of it.
3
00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,000
And well, live from the basement,
4
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,640
it's building a better Dave. Check us
5
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,269
out@betterdave.com email
6
00:00:19,651 --> 00:00:23,280
us@dave betterdave.com
7
00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:25,840
or call in your comments
8
00:00:26,530 --> 00:00:30,290
888-563-3228.
9
00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:35,490
Now here's your host, Dave Jackson.
10
00:00:36,370 --> 00:00:39,810
When I was growing up, I remember
11
00:00:40,690 --> 00:00:43,650
my dad doing his taxes probably on a Saturday
12
00:00:44,530 --> 00:00:47,810
and probably Sunday, and my mom
13
00:00:49,010 --> 00:00:52,850
pulling me aside being, you know, the annoying 78 year old
14
00:00:52,850 --> 00:00:56,670
boy that's just spastic and stupid and just kind of
15
00:00:56,670 --> 00:01:00,470
saying, please don't poke the bear, just please leave your dad alone. And he'd be,
16
00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:04,350
he had all these papers all over the kitchen table and shoeboxes
17
00:01:04,350 --> 00:01:08,150
of receipts and all sorts of stuff. And
18
00:01:08,790 --> 00:01:12,550
if you've ever watched hbo, there's a
19
00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:16,230
show called Game of Thrones. And it's all these different families and
20
00:01:16,390 --> 00:01:19,710
they're all fighting for the kingdom, you know. But one of them is the
21
00:01:19,710 --> 00:01:23,510
Lannisters. The Lannisters. And one of their sayings is a
22
00:01:23,510 --> 00:01:27,310
Lannister always pays his debts. And that was kind of
23
00:01:27,310 --> 00:01:31,150
my dad. He was always, you know, I remember my
24
00:01:31,150 --> 00:01:34,150
Grandpa lent me $300
25
00:01:34,790 --> 00:01:38,630
to buy my first car. And I had a paper route at the time
26
00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:43,030
and we did paperwork and I will do this many payments and
27
00:01:43,190 --> 00:01:46,830
yada yada yada, and you will pay back your
28
00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:50,150
debts. There are no free lunches. In fact, even growing up,
29
00:01:51,090 --> 00:01:54,850
I remember I wanted the song Pinball wizard by
30
00:01:54,850 --> 00:01:58,570
Elton John. And the only way you could get that,
31
00:01:58,570 --> 00:02:02,330
this is way before Spotify kids, was to buy the
32
00:02:02,330 --> 00:02:05,610
double album. No, there was no 45 single or
33
00:02:05,610 --> 00:02:09,130
cassette. You had to buy the double album of the
34
00:02:09,130 --> 00:02:11,970
movie soundtrack from the who. And it was a lot of money.
35
00:02:12,690 --> 00:02:15,970
And so I had to wash a lot of cars and
36
00:02:16,450 --> 00:02:20,210
sweep a lot of floors. And I did not. It was never.
37
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,400
Was it like, how much is it? Oh, 18 bucks. Here you go. That
38
00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,120
just didn't happen in the Jackson household. We
39
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,840
weren't rich. We weren't like, we never went
40
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,520
without food. But I had a lot of hand me downs
41
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,360
growing up from my brother. And my mom was the queen
42
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,440
of coupons. And so I understood the
43
00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,290
value of money, which is why
44
00:02:48,090 --> 00:02:51,850
when I got married, I knew my wife had
45
00:02:52,490 --> 00:02:56,290
one ovary. So I knew having a kid was a
46
00:02:56,290 --> 00:02:59,770
long shot. But we figured, ah, you only need one ovary.
47
00:03:00,250 --> 00:03:04,090
And who doesn't love trying to have a kid? Well, it turns out that's A
48
00:03:04,090 --> 00:03:07,650
big pain in the butt after a while, especially if your wife also
49
00:03:07,650 --> 00:03:11,130
has endometriosis, which is basically speed bumps for kids
50
00:03:11,860 --> 00:03:13,620
or for sperm. And
51
00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:19,500
we ended up charging up, I think four, at
52
00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:23,260
least three credit cards with fertility treatment. And
53
00:03:23,260 --> 00:03:26,700
I remember her saying, well, because we were
54
00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:29,300
literally living paycheck to paycheck.
55
00:03:30,420 --> 00:03:33,300
And I remember saying we should file for
56
00:03:33,460 --> 00:03:36,980
bankruptcy. And I was kind of like, how dare you?
57
00:03:37,750 --> 00:03:41,550
Atlantis pays his debts. And the only
58
00:03:41,550 --> 00:03:45,350
reason I ended up filing for divorce, well, that happened
59
00:03:45,350 --> 00:03:49,030
later too, but for bankruptcy was 911
60
00:03:49,030 --> 00:03:52,550
hit and her hours got cut by about 20%.
61
00:03:52,630 --> 00:03:55,590
And that's all it took when you're living paycheck to paycheck.
62
00:03:56,150 --> 00:03:59,270
Yeah, I could only juggle so much.
63
00:03:59,990 --> 00:04:03,830
And so I've always hated debt. I was deeply ashamed
64
00:04:04,050 --> 00:04:06,920
of that. I had to file for bankruptcy.
65
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,360
And so if we fast forward, you
66
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,040
know, I'm out of debt, doing great, always. You know, my,
67
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,840
my credit is amazing. And then I find
68
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,520
someone who has horrible credit and I
69
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,320
marry them. And that was also the case with now ex
70
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,760
wife number two. And
71
00:04:30,130 --> 00:04:33,250
we went through many years of marriage counseling.
72
00:04:33,810 --> 00:04:37,570
Luckily we weren't charging it, but we might as well have, because when we
73
00:04:37,570 --> 00:04:41,290
finally decided to get divorced, one of the stipulations
74
00:04:41,290 --> 00:04:44,690
was I had to take her credit card debt,
75
00:04:45,010 --> 00:04:48,730
even though it wasn't stuff that I bought. It was like, hey, if you
76
00:04:48,730 --> 00:04:51,490
want out of this, you got to take this.
77
00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:56,490
And that's how bad I wanted out of that marriage, because I did not want
78
00:04:56,490 --> 00:04:59,950
to go back in debt. But I took five figures
79
00:05:00,830 --> 00:05:03,790
of credit card debt, and it took me
80
00:05:04,590 --> 00:05:08,030
many years because I tried to get a consolidation loan
81
00:05:08,350 --> 00:05:11,950
to get a better rate. And they're like, no, no, your
82
00:05:12,190 --> 00:05:15,870
income to debt ratio is too high. We can't give you a loan.
83
00:05:15,870 --> 00:05:19,710
And I'm like, of course, it makes no sense to give someone a loan
84
00:05:19,710 --> 00:05:22,590
when they actually need one. But I finally got a,
85
00:05:23,620 --> 00:05:26,980
an okay loan that was pretty awful. And then I got another one that was
86
00:05:26,980 --> 00:05:29,860
a little better and a little better. And I finally was about
87
00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:34,460
three years out from getting
88
00:05:34,460 --> 00:05:37,380
debt free. And my boss
89
00:05:38,260 --> 00:05:42,060
and I had a meeting about the school of podcasting.
90
00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:45,420
And he said, hey, like, why isn't the school of podcasting
91
00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:49,140
bigger? He's like, everybody loves you. You're a great teacher,
92
00:05:49,140 --> 00:05:52,780
you're well respected. Why isn't like
93
00:05:52,860 --> 00:05:56,460
this place the place to learn how to podcast? And I said,
94
00:05:56,460 --> 00:05:59,980
because it's a part time job and it pays part time
95
00:05:59,980 --> 00:06:03,500
money. I go, but I'm having a blast. And he was like,
96
00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:07,060
okay. And the next day he came back and he said, do you think it
97
00:06:07,060 --> 00:06:10,780
would be bigger if you had more time? And I go, yeah,
98
00:06:11,260 --> 00:06:15,060
absolutely. And he said, well, what if I bought
99
00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:17,820
it, meaning the school of podcasting,
100
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,400
and then you could do that as part of your day job. And I was
101
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,840
like, that's interesting. How much money are we talking? And he
102
00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:29,000
offered enough money for me to go, ooh,
103
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,560
that would get me out of debt. And again,
104
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,320
that's really, really important to me. And so
105
00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,760
I thought about it. I really like my boss. In fact, we have
106
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,920
half the conversations were about how do we not mess up
107
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,180
our relationship? Because he really likes that. I work for
108
00:06:48,180 --> 00:06:51,900
PodPage. I really like working for PodPage. We
109
00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:55,660
have a thing in our agreement that after a year, if we want to unravel
110
00:06:55,660 --> 00:06:59,340
it, we can. But I ended up selling
111
00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:02,780
the school of podcasting. And I was out of debt
112
00:07:03,660 --> 00:07:06,540
back in December of 2025.
113
00:07:07,420 --> 00:07:11,220
So I went into 2026 with no debt. And
114
00:07:11,220 --> 00:07:14,230
I was loving it because again,
115
00:07:14,870 --> 00:07:18,230
when I'm in debt, I really don't like it.
116
00:07:18,470 --> 00:07:21,670
I don't like it at all. And so I was spending
117
00:07:21,750 --> 00:07:25,270
thousands of dollars to get the debt away.
118
00:07:26,710 --> 00:07:29,830
And so now that thousands of dollars a month
119
00:07:30,710 --> 00:07:34,270
was going into my bank account, which was cool.
120
00:07:34,270 --> 00:07:37,670
I have more money in the bank than I've had ever.
121
00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:41,800
And I was like, well, great. And I was starting to think about the things
122
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,560
I could do. I might build a garage on the house. I could.
123
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,920
I got great nieces and nephews that are eventually going to be
124
00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,640
headed to college. Maybe I could help with that. All the different things
125
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,280
I could do. And it was, it made me feel
126
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,880
normal because again,
127
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,680
I had this weird. I always felt like I
128
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,940
was four years behind everybody else in life because
129
00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:12,100
when I graduated from high school, they went to college. I did not.
130
00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:16,460
I thought I had a great job. It was a union job, working
131
00:08:16,460 --> 00:08:19,620
in a grocery store. And when you're making almost 10 bucks an hour in
132
00:08:19,620 --> 00:08:22,260
1984, you know, 83,
133
00:08:23,380 --> 00:08:26,980
that was not bad money. I was living with my brother, life was
134
00:08:26,980 --> 00:08:30,420
great. And then the store got sold and
135
00:08:30,660 --> 00:08:34,389
I lost my job. And that's when I went back to school the
136
00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:38,229
first time. But everybody else had a four year start. So I've
137
00:08:38,229 --> 00:08:41,909
always felt like I was behind. And now I
138
00:08:41,909 --> 00:08:45,709
felt like, all right, I finally caught up to everybody else that was
139
00:08:45,709 --> 00:08:49,389
my age and I was kind of, oh, I was proud of myself
140
00:08:49,389 --> 00:08:51,869
just because I dug myself out. And it was great
141
00:08:52,909 --> 00:08:56,589
until May. What is this? April of this
142
00:08:56,589 --> 00:09:00,269
year? We got, you know, April Showers bring May flowers
143
00:09:01,010 --> 00:09:03,970
and we got a lot of April showers. And
144
00:09:04,690 --> 00:09:08,050
I go down to the basement, which is an absolute just.
145
00:09:08,690 --> 00:09:12,530
It's just a big giant storage shed with crap everywhere. I grew
146
00:09:12,530 --> 00:09:16,370
up in the basement, but I only go there now to
147
00:09:16,610 --> 00:09:20,370
do laundry. And so I go down to do laundry and it's
148
00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:24,090
raining cats and dogs outside. And all of a sudden I notice that there
149
00:09:24,090 --> 00:09:27,750
is some invisible person peeing in my basement.
150
00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:31,550
I can hear it and I'm like, wait, where's that sound coming
151
00:09:31,550 --> 00:09:35,030
from? And so I kind of walk over and like,
152
00:09:35,110 --> 00:09:38,870
sounds like it's coming from behind those boxes. So I move all these
153
00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:42,709
boxes out of the way and a. The first thing I see is mold
154
00:09:43,270 --> 00:09:46,950
on the wall. Now, I worked for a company that used
155
00:09:46,950 --> 00:09:50,270
to maintain houses that had been
156
00:09:50,270 --> 00:09:54,020
foreclosed on. And I know what happens if you get water in the
157
00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:57,820
house. It's one of the worst things that can happen. And so I see mold,
158
00:09:58,220 --> 00:10:02,060
and out of the wall is, I don't
159
00:10:02,060 --> 00:10:05,420
know, a little quarter inch stream of water
160
00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:09,100
shooting about an inch and a half out of the wall and it's
161
00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:12,940
hitting the floor, hence making the peeing sound. And I was like,
162
00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:17,340
well, that looks expensive. And it's one of those things that,
163
00:10:18,310 --> 00:10:22,110
yeah, I could stick some goo in it and hope that the, the drain just
164
00:10:22,110 --> 00:10:25,030
mysteriously doesn't show up in another part of the house.
165
00:10:25,830 --> 00:10:29,590
But like I say, I know what happens when you get water in your
166
00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:33,390
house. And so I did a bunch
167
00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:36,950
of quotations from people and had people come in and look
168
00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:41,710
and it's like, well, I had money in the bank and
169
00:10:41,710 --> 00:10:45,120
if I wanted to, I could almost pay for it
170
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,440
in cash. But as much as I hate
171
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,680
being in debt, I want to have that Dave
172
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:56,520
Ramsey nest ready in case things. I'm
173
00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,000
always thinking something's going to go horrible. And
174
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,520
so I financed, I will be financing and I'll be
175
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,760
back in debt. And I was like, ugh. But
176
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,440
some things you got to do even if you don't want to do them. I
177
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,710
would much rather finance a garage or
178
00:11:14,710 --> 00:11:17,990
finance rebuilding the basement and making it
179
00:11:18,390 --> 00:11:22,150
bring back the pool table and the ping pong table and a kick butt stereo.
180
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:25,590
Maybe move my podcasting studio down there.
181
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:29,750
Everything except, I don't know, have them dig to China
182
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:34,470
to fix my draining problems.
183
00:11:35,830 --> 00:11:39,590
So I spent my whole life crawling my way out
184
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:42,930
of debt. It seems like at least in my 20s since then.
185
00:11:43,890 --> 00:11:47,250
And I got out and life pulled me back in.
186
00:11:48,210 --> 00:11:51,810
Then I guess the advantage I have
187
00:11:52,770 --> 00:11:56,610
is I did make it. I. I saw what it's like to live
188
00:11:56,610 --> 00:12:00,330
debt free. And I know how to cut corners. I'll go back to only
189
00:12:00,330 --> 00:12:04,090
having one streaming service. I'll go back to no fast
190
00:12:04,090 --> 00:12:07,940
food. I'll go back to all the things that
191
00:12:07,940 --> 00:12:11,260
I've done my whole life to save money
192
00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:14,460
and to get out of debt. I just thought I was done
193
00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:19,180
exercising that skill. And life has said,
194
00:12:19,180 --> 00:12:22,739
no, not yet. And then I go, well, wait a minute. If it
195
00:12:22,739 --> 00:12:26,380
takes me 5, 10 years to pay this
196
00:12:26,380 --> 00:12:30,140
off, like, I'm going to be pushing 70 at that point.
197
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:34,700
It's a little late to put up the ping pong table. Maybe at that point.
198
00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:38,530
I don't know. We'll see. But I hate being in debt.
199
00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:43,010
And it is what it is. And you got to do what you got to
200
00:12:43,010 --> 00:12:46,450
do. The only thing you have control
201
00:12:46,690 --> 00:12:50,450
over is how you react to it.
202
00:12:51,250 --> 00:12:54,690
And so I have to go around and
203
00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:59,090
get everything off the walls. And I'm in
204
00:12:59,170 --> 00:13:02,620
what we used to just call the workshop. And it has this
205
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:06,140
huge all along the wall, this
206
00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:10,140
super bench that my dad had made. And I see where it's not
207
00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:12,700
connected to the wall, but it's really heavy.
208
00:13:13,820 --> 00:13:16,940
And we were talking about we might just cut it up
209
00:13:18,060 --> 00:13:21,900
because a, I've never used it. It's not like I'm building anything
210
00:13:22,940 --> 00:13:25,660
and bring it out. And I was like, you know, and then
211
00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:29,220
there are parts of it. We're just going to have to demolish part of the
212
00:13:29,220 --> 00:13:32,820
basement to fix it. And I was like,
213
00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:35,620
well, they demolished my
214
00:13:36,020 --> 00:13:39,700
elementary school. They demolished my junior
215
00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:43,300
high school and my high school. Why not?
216
00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:47,100
You know, I've joked how, you know, all the wooden paneling
217
00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:50,300
is gone from the room that used to have the pool table because of a
218
00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:52,980
flood. That was one flood back before I was here.
219
00:13:54,180 --> 00:13:58,000
And I was like, well, sometimes you got
220
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,560
to tear things down. And, yep, they're not going to be like they
221
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,160
were, but they might actually be better.
222
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,760
And I was thinking of all the different ways I could configure the basement and
223
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,600
maybe put my podcasting stuff down there. It's cool,
224
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,720
it's quiet, and
225
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,480
it'll give me a reason to go up and down the steps. And that worked
226
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,320
for my grandma. She lived to be well into her 90s, and
227
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,060
she slept upstairs. So every day, you
228
00:14:27,060 --> 00:14:30,780
know, she would go up and down the stairs, and I'm like, well,
229
00:14:30,780 --> 00:14:34,020
that's maybe what I need to do. What are the benefits
230
00:14:34,980 --> 00:14:37,380
of this particular situation?
231
00:14:38,660 --> 00:14:42,020
And I guess we're gonna find out, because there's no way around it.
232
00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:45,540
And I wrote the check to get things started.
233
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:50,100
And now it's just a matter of, like, well, as I always say,
234
00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:54,540
it's gonna get better. There's a link
235
00:14:54,940 --> 00:14:57,340
in the description of this show.
236
00:14:58,540 --> 00:15:02,260
If you find it entertaining, if you find it thought
237
00:15:02,260 --> 00:15:06,020
provoking, if you get some sort of value out of this and you want
238
00:15:06,020 --> 00:15:09,420
to give some value back, you can go to betterdave.com
239
00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:13,380
and there's a button there that says, buy me a coffee. And if you buy
240
00:15:13,380 --> 00:15:14,220
me a couple thousand,
241
00:15:16,990 --> 00:15:20,270
it'll help me pay off the basement. Yay. There you go. That's all.
242
00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:24,550
So I hope life on your side of the computer
243
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:28,230
glass is amazing, and I'll see you again soon with another
244
00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:30,510
episode of Building a Better Day.
